The Zizek-Peterson Debate In early 2019, after the occasional potshot at one another, it was announced that iek would debate Jordan Peterson in Toronto. Copyright 2007-2023 & BIG THINK, BIG THINK PLUS, SMARTER FASTER trademarks owned by Freethink Media, Inc. All rights reserved. We have to find some meaningful cause beyond the mere struggle for pleasurable survival. Jacques Lacan wrote something paradoxical but deeply true, that even if what a jealous husband claims his wife that she sleeps with other men is all true, his jealously is nonetheless pathological. Plus, the radical measures advocated by some ecologists can themselves trigger new catastrophes. Burgis, Ben; Hamilton, Conrad Bongard; McManus, Matthew; Trejo, Marion (2020). I see equality as a space for creating differences and yes, why not, even different more appropriate hierarchies. Fearing establishment, Sanders' leftist critics offer socialism, without socialism #philosophytiktok #philosophy #slavojzizek #zizektok #zizek #leftist #based".My formula, maybe you would agree with it, is | my basic dogma is | happiness should be treated as a necessary byproduct | . already. Zizek Vs Hannan: A 1950s Debate in 2021 | Neotenianos First, since we live in a modern era, we cannot simply refer to an unquestionable authority to confer a mission or task on us. Read the full transcript. The experience that we have of our lives from within, the story we tell ourselves about ourselves, in order to account for what we are doing is and this is what I call ideology fundamentally a lie. This largely contrasts Peterson's viewpoint who admittedly has never used that term to refer in any way to the associated conspiracy theory, but only to raise critique about cultural phenomena that are, according to him, directly associated with postmodern thought. The recent debate between Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson lived up to the hype. Id like the share the debate with a hearing impaired friend. Peterson and Zizek Debate | PDF | Capitalism | Karl Marx - Scribd What appears as its excesses its regulatory zeal is I think an impotent reaction that masks the reality of a defeat. Aquella vez me parecieron ms slidos los argumentos del primero. Should we then drop egalitarianism? of the Century", its official title was "Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism". El debate entre iek y Peterson se produjo en Toronto, Canad. This I think is the true game changed. Get counterintuitive, surprising, and impactful stories delivered to your inbox every Thursday. How did China achieve it? Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism: the Peterson and iek Debate, I am releasing this transcript free of charge to best facilitate free use discussion of, the debate and the two authors. There is no simple democratic solution here. Peterson, in his opening remarks, noted that scalped tickets were selling at higher prices than the Maple Leafs playoff game happening on the other side of town. Book deals for political prisoners still in jail. In the debate, Peterson and iek agreed on many issues, including a criticism of political correctness and identity politics. News About Presidential Debate - DEBATE JKW talking about wherever he felt like that was tenuously related rather than In that part of the discussion, you say that you calling yourself a Communist is a bit of a provocation . MICHAEL FEDOROVSKY 1* 1* Investigador Independiente y ensayista. Marxism: Zizek/Peterson: Official Video Jordan B Peterson 6.5M subscribers Subscribe 86K 4.3M views 3 years ago I posted this yesterday, but the volume was too low, so now it's been raised.. I have a hard time understanding Zizek, and am admittedly completely out of my depth when it comes to philosophy and Marxism and all the nitty gritty. enjoy while Zizek is his tick-ridden idiosyncratic self. But if violence perpetuated in the name of an idea is supposed to disqualify the idea, then more people have died in the name of communism and nationalism than any other idea. Neither can face the reality or the future. He said that belief in God can legitimize the terror of those who claim to act on behalf of God. Debate is a process that involves formal discourse on a particular topic, often including a moderator and audience. All these antagonisms concern what Marx called commons the shared substance of our social being. But, it is instantly clear how this self-denigration brings a profit of its own. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. The controversial thinkers debated happiness, capitalism and Marxism in Toronto. In the end Peterson-iek was less of a heavyweight boxing match than a WWE Grand Slam. And we should act in a large scale, collective way. [16] Due to lack of defence for Marxism, at one point Peterson asked iek why he associates with this ideology and not his philosophical originality, on which iek answered that he is rather a Hegelian and that capitalism has too many antagonisms for long-term peaceful sustainability. iek & Peterson Debate - Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism (transcript If the academic left is all-powerful, they get to indulge in their victimization. Once traditional authority loses its substantial power, it is not possible to return to it. He has published more than three, dozen books, many on the most seminal philosophers of the 19th and 20th centuries. iek asked what Peterson meant by cultural Marxists when postmodern thinkers, like Foucault, werent Marxist at all. Chopin Nocturne No. And, in the new afterword, Bell offers a bracing perspective of contemporary Western societies, revealing the crucial cultural fault lines we face as the 21st century is here. You can find a transcript of it here. Second yes, we should carry our burden and accept the suffering that goes with it. The second threat, the commons of internal nature. But, according to recent estimates, there are now more forest areas in Europe than one hundred years or fifty years ago. A democracy this logic to the political space in spite of all differences in competence, the ultimate decision should stay with all of us. sticking to "his camp", but I feel like the resulting discussing ended up more I cleaned up the Zizek's second turn speaking, since that section seemed to contain many errors: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qs7mNIUsYt9kWcdO785ec_dEWmEHLo92yTso0CVtxNk/edit?usp=sharing. Peterson has risen to fame on the basis of his refusal to pay the usual fealties to political correctness. He wandered between the Paleolithic period and small business management, appearing to know as little about the former as the latter. Tonight, "philosopher" Slavoj iek will debate "psychologist" Jordan Peterson in Toronto, ostensibly on the subject of Capitalism vs. Marxism. For more information, please see our with only surface differences (some, though not all, could be chalked to their Both rejected happiness as a primary goal for individuals and societies. Along the same lines, one could same that if most of the Nazi claims about Jews they exploit Germans, the seduce German girls were true, which they were not of course, their anti-Semitism would still be a pathological phenomenon, because it ignored the true reason why the Nazis needed anti-Semitism. Regarding how the debate was receiving, judging from Twitter and some quick His remarks were just as rambling as Petersons, veering from Trump and Sanders to Dostoevsky to the refugee crisis to the aesthetics of Nazism. clear these are coherent thoughts from the same thinker. Rules for Life, as if there were such things. Refresh the. ridiculing the form. In intellectual circles, the recent debate of the century between the Canadian psychologist Jordan Peterson and Slovenian philosopher Slavoj Zizek was a real heavyweight bout. (or both), this part is the most interesting. In a similar way, the Alt-Right obsession with cultural Marxism expresses the rejection to confront that phenomenon they criticise as the attack of the cultural Marxist plot moral degradation, sexual promiscuity, consumerist hedonism, and so on are the outcomes of the immanent dynamic of capitalist societies. He acknowledged that unrestricted capitalism can cause its own problems and tends to make the rich richer, but to him the poor are also better off financially under such an arrangement. Hegels motto Evil resides in the gaze which sees evil everywhere fully applies here. Really? Peterson had said that people should seek meaning through personal responsibility and iek had said that happiness is pointless and delusional. "post-modern neo-marxists" and it's strange not to understand or at least know Studebaker concludes that "Peterson didn't prepare. In his turn, the self-proclaimed pessimist Zizek didnt always stick the larger economic topics, and did not want to be called communist. The two professors had both argued before against happiness as something a person should pursue. Zizek Peterson Debate Transcript. But there is nonetheless the prospect of a catastrophe here. The pathological element is the husbands need for jealousy as the only way for him to sustain his identity. should have replied to defend communism. [1], Around 3,000 people were in Meridian Hall in Toronto for the event. Another issue is that it's hard to pin down what communism is it, or in the effort to actualise our inner potentials. The idea that people themselves should decide what to do about ecology sounds deep, but it begs an important question, even with their comprehension is no distorted by corporate interests. Original reporting and incisive analysis, direct from the Guardian every morning. So, you know the market is already limited but not in the right way, to put it naively. And that was basically it. Its not just that in spite of all our natural and cultural differences the same divine sparks dwells in everyone. It has been said of the debate that " nothing is a greater waste of time ." Tickets to the livestream are $14.95, and admission to the venue itself was running as high as $1,500. I hope reading the debate will help me understand the arguments better. So as I saw it, the task of this debate was to at least clarify our differences."[24]. This is how refugees are created. It was officially titled Happiness: Capitalism vs. Marxism, and was drummed up thoroughly. His charge against Peterson's argument is followed with how he thinks Zizek strongest point. Having previously enjoyed and written about both Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Cookie Notice It's quite interesting, but it's not What if secretly they know she would kill her child again. Take what is perhaps the ultimate rogue state Congo. Jordan Peterson and 'Kung Fu Panda': How Did Slavoj iek Go - Vice First, a brief introductory remark. Remove him from his enemies and he is a very poor example of a very old thing the type of writer whom, from Samuel Smiles Self-Help to Eckhart Tolles The Power of Now, have promised simple answers to complex problems. Really? They dont mention communism to legitimise their rule, they prefer the old Confucian notion of a harmonious society. is dead and he never amended his manifesto that I know of. I am supposed to defend here the left, liberal line against neo-conservatives. On Slavoj Zizek and Jordan Peterson: Nature, Culture, and the I will correct more when I get more time but I need to get back to work. He's the sort of aging quitter we all hope to never be. Slavoj iek - Wikizero.com What qualifies them to pass a judgement in such a delicate matter? Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Canad. Peterson was humiliated deeply in it, having to admit he'd never read any Marx despite demonizing him for years, and only having skimmed one of Marx' books before showing up to debate Marxism with an actual Marx scholar (among other. First, a brief introductory remark. Post was not sent - check your email addresses! Is there, in todays United States, really too much equality? Peterson also supported the capitalist system, claiming that the business know-how and leadership skills of the capitalists add economic value to the system. I can see no threat to free creativity in this program on the contrary, I saw health care and education and so on as enabling me to focus my life on important creative issues. The threat of ecological catastrophe, the consequence of new techno-scientific developments, especially in biogenetics, and new forms of apartheid. Peterson opens with a 30-minutes speech where he criticizes the communist No. They do not have an answer to the real problems that face us: the environment and the rise of China as a successful capitalist state without democracy. And I also think this may be critical to some of you there is a problem with capitalism here for the simple reasons that its managers not because of their evil nature, but thats the logic of capitalism care to extend self-reproduction and environmental consequences are simply not part of the game. There are two teams, each consisting of two or three speakers. and our Warlords who rule provinces there are always dealing with Western companies, selling them minerals where would our computers be without coltan from Congo? If we compare with Trump with Bernie Sanders, Trump is a post-modern politician at its purist while Sanders is rather an old fashion moralist. Course Hero is not sponsored or endorsed by any college or university. It is todays capitalism that equalizers us too much and causes the loss of many talents. Democratic freedom, rapturous religion, and newspapers created a hotbed for social experimentation in 19th-century America. In Stalinism, precisely they were not kept apart, while already in Ancient Greece they knew they had to be kept apart, which is why the popular way was even combined with lottery often. Deep underwater, temperatures are close to freezing and the pressure is 1,000 times higher than at sea level. Scientific data seems, to me at least, abundant enough. This is I think now comes the problematic part for some of you maybe the problem with political correctness. Source: www.the-sun.com. [2] He asserted that it is wrong to perceive history only through a lens of class struggle, there is no exclusively "good" proletariat and "bad" bourgeoisie, such identity politics is prone to authoritarian manipulation, and that in his view people do not climb the social hierarchies only by taking advantage of others. What's perhaps most surprising is that Zizek doesn't defend Marxism, which he And I must agree. T. S. Eliot, the great conservative, wrote, quote what happens when a new work of art is created is something that happens simultaneously to all the work of art which preceded it. While the two take different political stances, both have been known to rail against political correctness and found that issue in common. Zizek makes many interesting points. They both wanted the same thing: capitalism with regulation, which is what every sane person wants. Having listened to the recent debate between the philosopher Slavoj Zizek and the politician Daniel Hannan, one has the impression of having assisted to a sophisticated version of a sophomoric discussion between a marijuana-smoking hippy and the head of the Tory Students' Association at a posh college. It was in this opening argument that Zizek effectively won the debate to the extent it was a debate at all. The Hidden Argument in the Zizek/Peterson Debate, From a - Medium First of all it's much shorter than Peterson Vs Harris. Then once you factor in the notion that much of Marxism is . Let me mention the change enacted by Christianity. We are never just instruments of some higher cause. They are not limited to the mating season. I wanted to know that too! I'd say this reminds me a lot of what I've seen from him It is just a version of what half a century ago in Europe was simply the predominant social democracy, and it is today decried as a threat to our freedoms, to the American way of life, and so on and so on. live commentary is quite funny. El denominado "Debate del siglo" entre el filsofo y socilogo esloveno Slavoj iek y el psiclogo canadiense Jordan Peterson, fue uno de los eventos intelectuales de mayor trascendencia del ltimo tiempo. Postmodernism: History and Diagnosis Transcript Dr. Jordan Peterson 2019-05-17T08:28:01-04:00. Amidst the Peterson-Zizek Debate, We Should Still Think for Ourselves Zizek called out for the necessity of addressing climate change while also focusing on such issues as Bernie Sanders, whom he called an old-fashioned moralist. Zizek sees Sanders as being unfairly portrayed as a radical. Let me mention just the idea that is floating around of solar radiation management, the continuous massive dispersal of aerosols into our atmosphere, to reflect and absorb sunlight, and thus cool the planet. wanted to review a couple of passages and i didnt need to go through the video! Why do I still cling to this cursed name when I know and fully admit that the 20th century Communist project in all its failure, how it failed, giving birth to new forms of murderous terror. Zizek versus Peterson Peterson argues against the postmodern neo-Marxist position held by, in his terms, "the radical left." This position emerged during the '60s but was initiated by the Frankfurt School, which emerged after World War II as a response to the rise of fascism in Europe. Zizek's opening statement is probably the most interesting part of the debate. Of course, we are also natural beings, and our DNA as we all know overlaps I may be wrong around 98% with some monkeys. Because the left doesn't have its own house in order", "Is 'cultural Marxism' really taking over universities? My main purpose with this text is not to prove that Marx was right, but rather that Peterson's and Zizek's analysis are shortsighted and yet still give valuable insight about the state of The digitalisation of our brains opens up unheard of new possibilities of control. Theres nothing to support, proposed Peterson, that a dictatorship of the proletariat would bring about a good outcome, especially considering the lessons of Soviet atrocities in the 20th century. vastly different backgrounds). They are both concerned with more fundamental. Related research topic ideas. The first and sadly predominate reaction is the one of protected self-enclosure The world out there is in a mess, lets protect ourselves by all sorts of walls. In the Nazi vision, their society is an organic whole of harmonic collaboration, so an external intruder is needed to account for divisions and antagonisms. This page has been accessed 35,754 times. In spite of protests here and there, we will probably continue to slide towards some kind of apocalypse, awaiting large catastrophes to awaken us. [3], During an event at the Cambridge Union in November 2018, iek stated that Peterson used "pseudo-scientific[4] evidence" (3:40). What I Learned at the 'Debate' Between Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek iek was less a cognizant thinker and more a pathological sacred cow tipper while Peterson was a bard for the. by its protagonists. The title of the debate was "Happiness: Capitalism v. Marxism." The structure of the debate was that each participant presented a thirty-minute introduction followed by a series of brief ten-minute responses to one another. Having watched it (video), I regret to inform you it was neither of those Blackwood. Scholarly publications with full text pdf download. the cold war, and it would seem to me that understanding the ideological roots a.Teams are iterating, but the system is not b.Conflict and disagreement on processes and practices are difficult to, Program Increment (PI) Planning is a major event that requires preparation, coordination, and communication. What I Learned at the 'Debate' Between Jordan Peterson and - Vice [16][17] In a similar fashion, iek asked Peterson to name him personal names of "postmodern neo-Marxists" in Western academia and from where he got the statistical numbers because according to him the over-the-top political correctness is opposed to Marxism, to which Peterson replied that his references are aimed towards ideas that are connected with Marxism and postmodernism as a pheonomenon and not necessarily towards people defining themselves as such. The Church of England is debating if believers should stop using gendered language when talking about God. It will be certain only it will be too late, and I am well aware of the temptation to engage in precipitous extrapolations. Capitalism threatens the commons due to its This is why as many perspicuous philosophers clearly saw, evil is profoundly spiritual, in some sense more spiritual than goodness. He doesn't do much to defend Communism The French philosophy Andr Glucksmann applied Dostoyevskys critique of godless nihilism to September 11 and the title of his book, Dostoyevsky in Manhattan suggests that he couldnt have been more wrong. The other hated communism but thought that capitalism possessed inherent contradictions. towards disaster, maybe some catastrophes can shake us out of our ruts. Peterson stated that although capitalism produces inequalities, it is not like in other systems, or even parts of the world compared to the so-called Western civilization as it also produces wealth, seen in statistical data about the economic growth and reduction of poverty worldwide, providing an easier possibility to achieve happiness. The true opposite of egotist self-love is not altruism a concern for the common good but envy, resentment, which makes me act against my own interests. He said things like Marx thought the proletariat was good and the bourgeoisie was evil. Last night, Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek debated each other at the Sony Centre in Toronto. [15][16] On the example of China, he tried to connect happiness, capitalism, and Marxism as well criticize China itself[16] and asserted that "less hierarchical, more egalitarian social structure would stand to produce great amounts of this auxiliary happiness-runoff". So, a pessimist conclusion, what will happen? He has not one, sudden cheer, iek shrugs off audience reaction, the University of Ljubljana and a second in psychoanalysis from University, lets hear it for psychoanalysis! Peterson, I was interested to learn they'd have a debate. It's funny to see Peterson Web november 12, 2022 advertisement the nigerian factcheckers . "almost all ideas are wrong". Jordan Peterson itching to take on Slavoj Zizek - 'any time, any place' -", "Slavoj Zizek vs. Jordan Peterson: Marxist gewinnt philosophenduell", "Happiness is watching a brawl between iconoclastic philosophers", "Has Jordan Peterson finally gone too far? Regarding to the Peterson-Zizek debate as a whole, yes, I would recommend a listen. It can be watched on Jordan Peterson's channel here. Therefore they retreat. The 'debate of the century': what happened when Jordan Peterson debated Both Zizek and Peterson transcend their titles, their disciplines, and the academy, just as this debate we hope will transcend purely economic questions by situating those in the frame of happiness of human flourishing itself. Capitalism won, but today and thats my claim, we can debate about it the question is, does todays global capitalism contain strong enough antagonisms that prevent its indefinite reproduction. [15], Several publications, such as Current Affairs, The Guardian and Jacobin, criticized Peterson for being uninformed on Marxism and seemingly ill-prepared for the debate. But, nonetheless, deeply divided. My hero is here a black lady, Tarana Burke, who created the #MeToo campaign more than a decade ago. How Jordan Peterson Lost His 'Debate' Against Slavoj Zizek - The Federalist Egalitarianism often de facto means, I am ready to renounce something so that others will also not have it. Community Video : Free Community : Free Download, Borrow and - Archive He sees the rejections of some systemic failures of capitalism onto external That the debate will be live-streamed and more than 1,400 people have already dropped $14.95 for. Peterson and Zizek Debate Transcription : r/zizek - reddit In such times of urgency, when we know we have to act but dont know how to act, thinking is needed. The second reaction is global capitalism with a human face think about socially responsible corporate figures like Bill Gates and George Soros. They returned to their natural subject: who is the enemy? His12 Rules For Lifeis a global bestseller and his lectures and podcasts are followed by millions around the world. Press J to jump to the feed. agreement (as well they should, adopting neither deluded far-left or far-right Jordan Peterson and Slavoj iek: The debate. | by Ulysses Alvarez A New World Order is emerging, a world of peaceful co-existence of civilisations, but in what way does it function? so that ultimately the worst thing that can happen is to get what we I cannot but notice the irony of how Peterson and I, the participants in this duel of the century, are both marginalised by the official academic community. The Peterson-iek encounter was the ultra-rare case of a debate in 2019 that was perhaps too civil. Peterson is neither a racist nor a misogynist. As soon as jordan peterson announced he. [, moderator, president of Ralston College, Doctor Stephen Blackwood. google, pretty well on the center-right, and pretty badly on the left (broadly). They passionately support LGBT, they advocate charities and so on. I cannot but notice the irony of how Peterson and I, the participants in this duel of the century, are both marginalised by the official academic community. IQ, Politics, and the Left: A Conversation with Douglas Murray Transcript Nina Paley: Animator Extraordinaire Transcript Aspen Ideas Festival: From the Barricades of the Culture Wars Transcript I did see the debate of the century, the debate of our century. And sure, the level of the discussion might have been unappealing to all the Which Way, Raskolnikov? iek v. Peterson - The California Review Zizek and Peterson sell books for cash, but cash is just what you need for the real prize: the minds of men. The paper contains a close reading of the Manifesto. If you look closely, you will say that state plays today a more important role precisely in the richest capitalist economics. He makes a big deal out of how he obsessed about 'Crustacean Jung v Cocaine Hegel': Zizek-Peterson debate - RT Through this renouncing of their particular roots, multi-cultural liberals reserve for themselves the universal position: gracefully soliciting others to assert their particular identify. Error type: "Forbidden". I am not making just a joke here because I think it is exactly like this and thats the lesson psychoanalysis, that our sexuality, our sexual instincts are, of course, biologically determined but look what we humans made out of that. He seemed, in person, quite gentle. This one is from the Guardian. After writing less than nothing, zizek thought that he didn't yet get to the basic thought, that is the reason he wrote absolute recoil, a more difficult book than less than nothing, according. What happened to Peterson after his debate with Zizek? - Quora Peterson-iek debate - Wikipedia Here refugees are created. No his conservatism is a post-modern performance, a gigantic ego trip. That snapped him back into his skill set: self-defense. A big deal, with huge numbers, and really very little underneath. They were a vague and not particularly informed (by his own admission) reading of The Communist Manifesto. So, its still yes, biologically conditioned sexuality, but it is if I may use this term transfunctionalised, it becomes a moment of a different cultural logic. interrupts himself to add "I will finish immediately" before finishing the joke. semi-intentionally quite funny. There was an opportunity. Instead they often engage in self-destructive behavior. The Peterson-iek encounter was the ultra-rare case of a debate in 2019 that was perhaps too civil. So, I dont accept any cheap optimism. I was surprised (and a bit disappointed) that Peterson didn't seem more
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